Dear Sriman Jonathan,
Well as Govinda Maharaj was about to answer him, the other person who was already formally initiated by Govinda Maharaj interrupted Govinda Maharaj by asking ~
“(Govinda Maharaj, is it alright for a person who is not initiated to ask such a?)” Govinda Maharaj looked a little disdained at this disciple and said~ “before initiation one may ask anything, after initiation your are supposed to just do what i tell you.” then He addressed the man.
Yes, you may ask anything.
You asked, I answered; and addressed your questions.
But I asked you nothing, because I don’t consider you an authority on Krishna Consciousness.
And yet you blather on with your “remembrance” of this or that, which you cannot apply in any practical way.
And if we proceed with speculation, your points may be very true.
No. Speculating: “Maybe this, maybe that.”, is a fruitless endeavor. That is my point. Truth is not derived through speculation. Truth is acquired by hearing from an authority, an acharya, and then following that acharya.
You accept no authority, no guru. Your guru is your wayward mind that carries you from one speculation to another, up and down throughout the brahmanda, with no solution to your life of misery. Therefore, you have wasted practically your whole life speculating, and then offering your speculations to others, like me, who have no interest in your stupidity.
But the foolish can’t help themselves. Misery loves company, so you try to drag others into your world of speculation. I won’t go there with you into that hellish world.
You are free to speculate, but why try to drag others into that hellish world? Answer: you have no shame, no humility and no honor aka “no good qualities.” You are like a street dog with no master, no protector and no guardian. You are envious of others who have a home and a loving master to nourish and protect them; so you try to lure them into the street with you, to suffer as you do. I find this to be most deplorable and detestable.
yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
All the demigods and their exalted qualities, such as religion, knowledge and renunciation, become manifest in the body of one who has developed unalloyed devotion for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva. On the other hand, a person devoid of devotional service and engaged in material activities has no good qualities. Even if he is adept at the practice of mystic yoga or the honest endeavor of maintaining his family and relatives, he must be driven by his own mental speculations and must engage in the service of the Lord’s external energy. How can there be any good qualities in such a man?
So, please don’t tell me that Srila Prabhupada said this, or Srila Govinda Maharaja or Srila Sridhara Maharaja said something or other. What they wanted to say, they have said to their disciples and followers who are qualified to understand what it is they came to give. There association is desirable for me, yours is not.
idaṁ te nātapaskāya
na cāśuśrūṣave vācyaṁ
na ca māṁ yo ’bhyasūyati
This conﬁdential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
If you have a question, ask it in the proper fashion:
tad viddhi praṇipātena
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
otherwise, please don’t waste my time.
And, please stop sending me your “One guru said this and another said that.” I have no interest.
Swami B.K. Giri
On Mar 13, 2016, hi. jonathan wrote:
Thanks again4your reply that brought some wonderful memory to my mind.
i remember the last time i sat with B.S.Govinda Maharaj in His [email protected] with one other person.
a man who i had spoken with an hour earlier outside, ( he was inquiring from me about initiation and i asked him if he had spoken with Govinda Maharaj about this, he said no)
So here he is now entering Govinda Maharaj`s room and asking his ~?~`s about initiation. Well as Govinda Maharaj was about to answer him, the other person who was already formally initiated by Govinda Maharaj interrupted Govinda Maharaj by asking~
“(Govinda Maharaj, is it alright for a person who is not initiated to ask such a ? )”
Govinda Maharaj looked a little disdained at this disciple and said~
“before initiation one may ask anything, after initiation your are supposed to just do what i tell you.” then He addressed the man`s~?~s.
So you must 4give me if i seem out of place.
I also remembered ShivanandaDas (i had a letter written by Srila Prabhupada stating that ShivanandaDas single handedly started European ISKCON)
Well Shivananda Das while giving class back in the 70’s in the Boston Temple would often make the point that Srila Prabhupada told him~
“if you only speak what you realize, you will never be disturbed.”
When i recently asked ShivanandaDas where he was when SrilaPrabhupada advised him this, Shivananda Das said to me~ “i don’t remember Him saying that.”
I also remembered Satsvarupa Das. a few weeks after the 1977 GouraPurnima festival, under the order of Srila Prabhupada he came to the L.A. Temple where during Srimad Bhagavatam class he was reiterating Srila Prabhupad`s gbc resolutions. One new resolution that Srila Prabhupada had given was under a banner~
“Minimum daily Sadhana for all formaly initiated DEsciples, weather living in a Temple or living in their home.”
When i recently asked Satsvarupa about this he also said to me~ “i don’t remember Him saying that.”
Now we do have this recording of Srila Prabhupada explaining what articles are offered and what order and how many times circled to specific locations on the Diety.
Unfortunately we have no contact with the person who recorded this. And if we proceed with speculation, your points may be very true. For example we know there is a recording of SrilaPrabhupada chanting Gayatri Mantra of which no one except an initiate should be allowed to hear. So one may say that Srila Prabhupada may intend for only Pujari to hear this information~?~
But when i enquire from the “leading ISKCON Pujaris”
(and by that i mean for example the twins in Mayapur, NrsinghaKavacha Das who is listed as the minister of Diety Puja in ISKCON, and BhanuSwami who is credited on the GBC website with having been personally instructed by Srila Prabhupada in diety Puja and has become an expert establishing the current standards of Diety Puja in ISKCON,<Bhanu Swami told me he never received any direction from Srila Prabhupad for Diety Puja other than Srila Prabhupada answering his one ~?~ to differentiate between Lord Chaitanya and Radha Krishna on Ekadasi Days.> and yet he allows this description of himself on the gbc website~?~)
about this, they say they had never heard this recording even after they themselves doing extensive research on this subject~?~
So, seems rather strange that people who claim to have chosen to engage in Srila Prabhupad`s service, never asked Him how He wants it to be done~?~
And 1 last~?~ maybe you know who asked this?
i have a recording some where in the house, Srila Sridhar Swami performed an initiation ceremony. After describing the 10 offenses ect., one of the initiates asks Srila Sridhar Maharj~
“Maharaj are you going to give us anything else to do with our time beyond chanting 16 rounds?”
Srila Sridhar Maharaj said to him~ “Swami Maharaj has already given enough to do, just do it.”
But then again we are always looking @our bottom line
as Srila Sridhar Maharaj`s answer to Bhakti Sudhir Goswami`s ?~
~”Maya is real after all”~
so please 4give me if you see me out of line asking you if you had ever received
any directions from Srila Prabhupad for performing ISKCON Diety Puja…….