Srila Giri Maharaja – “Sriman Vrndavan Das’s rebuttal to my email.”

Dear Readers,

On Aug 4, 2018 I wrote an email to Sriman Vrndavan das which I then posted on our website (See: “Truths: Hidden and Rewarding”). He responded with an email to me dated Aug 5, 2018 wherein he seemed to take umbrage with the entirety of my email, although I admit to being baffled as to the exact points of his disagreement with me except for one.

That one point Vrndavan offered as a clear dispute with me is contained in this passage he wrote to me: “How did you conclude that I deviated from Them?”, where “Them” refers to his gurus. I have reread my email several times searching for the passage where I accused Vrndavan das of deviating from his gurus. I could not find any place where I had made that accusation.

Disagreement, as characterized in the above, is often the result of misunderstanding. Often points and terms require further clarification so that both sides to an argument understand clearly where the points of difference lie. Every jiva is different in some ways from every other. Therefore, there must be disagreement on some points. However, those of us desiring to follow the line of Sri Rupa-Raghunatha should find little disagreement on the matter of the philosophy and precepts preached and practiced by them. Should there be disagreement in this matter I want to make clear the precise points of disagreement. When such specificity is ascertained we may find there actually is no disagreement. Or, it may be that we shall have to agree to disagree.

I hope further dialog with Prabhu Vrndavan will prove useful in clarifying the points I raised with him regarding our Gaudiya siddhanta. In furtherance of that end I asked him if he would like me to post his email to me dated 8/5/18 as a rebuttal to my email to him the day before. He responded “Surely.”

For the benefit of our readers I am presenting below the full thread of our correspondence (as context) in chronological order up to Prabhu Vrndavan’s rebuttal of 8/5/18 which will appear at the end of the thread.

Questions or comments from readers may be submitted as “comments” as provided for at the bottom of this web page.

Swami B.K. Giri

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On 8/3/2018 10:44 AM, Swami BK Giri wrote:

All glories to Sri Sri Guru Gauranga.

Dear Sriman Vrndavan Das Adhikari,

Please accept my humble obeisances

I have not heard from you in a long time and, as of late, have wondered about you. I hope all is well with you, your family, the devotees I am acquainted with in Ukraine and those in your association.

I was remembering today your request of a few years ago that I organize a party to petition the UN to perform some political function to save the Ukrainian people from their government.

It seems you are much more the activist than I am and thus I was disinterested in taking part in this political battle despite your urging me to do so.

Recently I heard a challenge from a nationwide talkshow host (Steve Deace), author, Op Ed writer, etc. who is also active as an evangelical. He invited those with a different worldview than his to “flood” his inbox with emails that presented a worldview other than that offered by the Bible that could explain the human condition and solve its problems.

I responded to his challenge (see the email below my signature) but I am only one person. Then I thought “Vrndavan das is a devotee and an activist, maybe he would like to help.” I hope you will. Perhaps you can also encourage others to help in this preaching work which is the only solution to all the problems of the world (yare dekha kare taha krishna upadesha… ).

If you would like to help you will understand what to do from my email to Steve Deace attached below my signature.

I pray this finds you in good health and spirits and look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Swami B.K. Giri

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The following will soon appear as a post on our website.

Date: 8/3/18

Mr. Deace,

Hare Krishna.

During your Podcast Ep. 338 you presented the following challenge:

@25:11 “because the only worldview The only one; pester me, bring me your emails, bring me your best arguments; i’ve held all your positions over my 45 years on this planet, and I frankly probably know your positions better than you do. So, bring them to me. Flood the inbox at [email protected]. Show me another worldview that can adequately explain why the world is the way it is, why we as a species, as human beings are the way we are, and what the solution to it is.”

You then say: “Let me repeat that.”: (paraphrasing) Why the world is the way it is etc., and you repeat the challenge adding “show me another worldview outside the worldview of the Bible that answers those questions. There isn’t one.” @26:03

My spiritual master Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, the founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness aka the “Hare Krishna Movement”, is widely respected for bringing Krishna consciousness to the Western world. If you will read his book Bhagavad-gita As It Is under the guidance of a bonafide teacher you should be able to understand there is “another world view outside the world view of the Bible that answers those questions.”

I will be happy to discuss all the relevant points with you to your full satisfaction, if given the chance.

You have ignored my previous responses to such challenges as the one currently under discussion. Is this another fake challenge, where you pretend to invite an argument and then ignore it when it comes? If it is a real challenge and a real invitation I will only believe it if you respond to this email and invite me to do what you have challenged me to do, present “another world view outside the world view of the Bible that answers those questions.”

I pray this finds you in good health and spirits.

Respectfully,

Swami B.K. Giri

Flood the inbox—
I humbly invite all the preachers of Krishna consciousness to do as Mr. Steve Deace invited you to do: “Flood the inbox at [email protected]. Show me [him] another worldview that can adequately explain why the world is the way it is, why we as a species, as human beings are the way we are, and what the solution to it is.”

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On Aug 4, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Sriman Vrndavan das wrote:

Please accept my humble obeisances dear Sripad Giri Maharaj! All glories to Sri Sri Guru Gauranga.

I will think about your offer.

Let you think on this-

Nicholas Hagger’s books reveal truths that have been hidden, and are rewarding. He has devoted much thought to unearthing the pattern of history, and he presents a new approach to the influence of secret organisations on Western history from the Renaissance to the 20th century and on plans to create a New World Order.

The secret organizations are:

the Kabbalists and Cathars, who influenced the development of Protestantism and the Reformation revolution;

the Rosicrucians who shaped the Puritan Revolution – Dutch Rosicrucian exiles funded the Model Army so that Cromwell could readmit Jews to England – and also

William of Orange’s Glorious Revolution;

the Templar Freemasons who inspired the American Revolution;

the Priory of Sion who created the Illuminati who, when hidden within Grand Orient Templar Freemasonry, stirred up the French Revolution, and who, through the Rothschilds, influenced the Imperialist revolution that produced the European empires in the 19th century;

Grand Orient Templar Freemasons who brought about the Russian Revolution.

Their influence powered the Protestant Revolution, which in turn provided the ideological foundations of the English, American, French and Russian revolutions. Factions within Freemasonry and families such as the Rothschilds have figured prominently in all these upheavals. They add up to a tide of world revolution that is reaching high water mark in our own time.

After reading above please think to what Christian sect or secret organization mentioned belongs your pastor and what is his hidden agenda or intention.

Once known it may reveal revolution’s roots in early attempts by heretical sects – Gnostics, Templars, Cathars, Kabbalists, Rosicrucians – to subvert Christianity. Their inspiration is traced to the Kabbalah, which links them to the Puritans and modern Freemasonry and is seen to provide the ideological foundations of the English, American, French and Russian revolutions.

Or may be it is worthwhile to ask him directly? What is his hidden agenda or intention?

Haribol
Vdas

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On 8/4/2018 3:00 PM, Swami BK Giri wrote:

My dandavats Sriman Vrndavan das.

I’m happy to hear from you again after a long time.

[Vrndavan das wrote]
Let you think on this-

Nicholas Hagger’s books reveal truths that have been hidden, and are rewarding.

If you want to make progress in Krishna consciousness you will have to subdue your tendency to rely on mundane authorities. Their ideas have been classified by our Sri Guru Varga as those of the cheaters and the cheated. The ideas they promote are intended to cheat you. If you accept them you will be cheated.

Surely you did not take initiation from a Vaishnava guru in order to continue the same life you had prior to initiation. As Srila Sridhara Maharaja so eloquently wrote:

To err is human. To err is inevitable for all, being not perfect. Still, no one wants to remain imperfect. There is an element within all that is animate that tends towards perfection. If it were not so, we would feel no want at all. Our tendency towards perfection is certainly very weak and limited; otherwise we could attain the goal at once. Our limited capacity and tendency for perfection makes room for the guide or guru.

The imperfect is not so if it is not in need of help, and that also from beyond itself.

—Srila Sridhara Maharaja, The Harmonist, 1934, Article: “Sri Guru and His Grace”

Help “from beyond itself” means: from the transcendental plane of Vaikuntha, not some mundane author like the one you have suggested.

You say his books “reveal truths that have been hidden, and are rewarding.” Rewarding for who? Not for me. And not for our acharyas or their disciples, friends and so forth. The real hidden truth that is rewarding for us is described here:

raja-vidya raja-guhyam
pavitram idam uttamam
pratyaksavagamam dharmyam
su-sukham kartum avyayam

SYNONYMS
raja-vidya — the king of education; raja-guhyam — the king of confidential knowledge; pavitram — the purest; idam — this; uttamam — transcendental; pratyaksa — by direct experience; avagamam — understood; dharmyam — the principle of religion; su-sukham — very happy; kartum — to execute; avyayam — everlasting.

TRANSLATION
This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.

Bg 9.2

This hidden knowledge, as given by Krishna and His devotees, is raja-vidya the “king” of all knowledge. It is pure, having come directly from Krishna. Because it is pure, it is the only type of knowledge that is truly rewarding and makes one happy (su-sukam) not just during this life but everlastingly (avyayam).

What has happened with you? Have you lost your faith in guru and Krishna? If not, why are you suggesting I read this rubbish?

Next I suppose you will ask “How do you know it is rubbish if you have not read it?” That question is answered here:

na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso
jagat-pavitram pragrnita karhicit
tad vayasam tirtham usanti manasa
na yatra hamsa niramanty usik-ksayah

Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows. Since the all-perfect persons are inhabitants of the transcendental abode, they do not derive any pleasure there.

SB 1.5.10

I pray you will consider these points carefully and look to guru, shastra and sadhu for “truths that have been hidden, and are rewarding” rather than searching for answers in all the wrong places; among those under the spell of the four defects:

Vedic knowledge is received from transcendental sources, and the first words were spoken by the Lord Himself. The words spoken by the Lord are called apauruseya, meaning that they are different from words spoken by a person of the mundane world who is infected with four defects. A mundaner (1) is sure to commit mistakes, (2) is invariably illusioned, (3) has the tendency to cheat others and (4) is limited by imperfect senses. With these four imperfections, one cannot deliver perfect information of all-pervading knowledge.

Vedic knowledge is not imparted by such defective living entities.

—Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bg Introduction

You have been given the chance to study in the classroom of teachers like Vyasadeva, Shukadeva, Narada, Sri Krishna Chaitanya and even Krishna Himself. Why would you leave their classroom to study under this man you have named? It is ludicrous.

I pray this finds you well in health and spirits. Please convey the same to your good wife Srimati Ananga Devi and your children.

Sincerely,

Swami B.K. Giri

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On Aug 5, 2018, at 5:10 AM, Sriman Vrndavan das wrote:

Please accept my humble obeisances dear Sripad Giri Maharaj! All glories to Sri Sri Guru Gauranga.

https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/3/11/14

Your Gurudev Swami Maharaj says-
Purport:
The subject matters of physics, chemistry, mathematics, astronomy, time and space dealt with in the above verses of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are certainly very interesting to students of the particular subject, but as far as we are concerned, we cannot explain them very thoroughly in terms of technical knowledge.

You cannot ignore material knowledge since you remain in this world. Christianity is part of the religious history of this world. You asked me to reflect on call from pastor on other views beyond biblical. So yes, there is Kaballah and freemasonry, illuminoids and templars that are beyond it. All western history of last 500 years or more are influenced by this pseudo-spiritual practices including protestant Christianity to which he belongs. Will he admit it? It is an interesting question.

And of course this kind of inter-religious dialogue for which you prompted me has nothing to do with my personal spiritual belief and practice in Gaudiya Math under by beloved Gurus. How did you conclude that I deviated from Them? Based on quotes from non-Gaudiya sources? But why should inter-religious dialogue be base only on Gaudiya sources? The other side will appreciate more if we will be able to attract more sources including mundane historical science substantiating our views. Or as admits your Gurudeb Swami Maharaj in above quote “but as far as we are concerned, we cannot explain them very thoroughly in terms of technical knowledge. ” Why cannot? Not possessing enough mundane technical knowledge? Yes. And He was ready to admit it. No harm. But his truthful disciple and your God-brother Sripad Sadaputa Prabhu possessed enough mundane technical knowledge and could state more on the subject matter (subject matters of physics, chemistry, mathematics, astronomy, time and space dealt with in the above verses of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam). Is it worthless? No because his Gurudeb Swami Maharaj told him “to explain them very thoroughly in terms of technical knowledge”. Why Swami Maharajtold him to do it? Because “time and space dealt with in the above verses of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam”.

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