The below emails represent a continuation of a discussion initiated by Sriman Ujjvala das via our Contact page.
Subject: Topic closed.
Dear Sriman Ujjvala das,
You pointed to no disagreement with what I wrote and presented no relevant question. Therefore, I consider our discussion of the topic addressed in my letter “’Aryan Does Not Mean a White Man’ (Exposing Hitler’s Lies)‘” to be closed.
Swami B.K. Giri
Subject: Re: Aryans are White Europeans
From: Ujjvala das
Dandavats Pranams Prabhuji,
All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga!
I honestly don’t understand the first part of the email regarding photos and terms of the site. I am simply asking questions of anybody who is willing to answer regarding these issues and concerns. I come from the Srila Narayana Maharaja line, but right now that mission is a bit in shambles due to the same situation that has happened in every single Gaudiya mission in the last 50 years.
Does your statement mean that I must agree to having a public exchange to somehow or other get a response? I don’t agree whatsoever to this publicity because I don’t see a point nor a benefit to it at this point. Airing apparent disagreements amongst us is not a healthy reading for those who are still developing in their KC. These things should always be internal and for those with at least a bit more chanting under their belts (sort of speak). If this ‘laundry airing’ is necessary for this exchange to continue, then let me know and I won’t write anymore.
If interested in having this interpersonal exchange regarding what I brought up, then allow me to respond below.
I find it a bit problematic that your kind response continuously referred to “my” opinion or what “I” think when all the statements referred to there are from Srila Prabhupada. I am a nobody and have no authority whatsoever. I don’t claim to be an authority and doing so would be a grave offense. You are all actually and basically arguing with your own guru/acharya not with me, this is why I placed all of his clear quotes. There are enough of them that I don’t have to write any opinions of my own. They don’t require interpretations.
Srila Prabhupada is very clear in his statements that White Europeans come from northern India and invaded Europe (a reverse Aryan invasion theory if you will).
He clearly states they are white people. He clearly makes a material distinction between races. Prabhupada also quotes SB regarding the origin of black peoples (remember? From the legs of a demoniac King?) who must be kept isolated in the jungles. Srila Prabhupada clearly states that Hitler was right in his understanding of who the Aryans were and that his self identification as one was correct. This is NOT me talking but Srila Prabhupada. Is he wrong? No he is not.
The issue here is harmonization not contradiction. With all due respect, you both seem to be trying to contradict him instead of harmonizing his statements. We have to harmonize with his other statements regarding how Aryans are also not a racial category but a quality and character description. These are NOT contradictions and we can’t be offensive and treat them as such.
I can humbly attempt to harmonize, even without your much higher knowledge and intelligence, based on my honest intent to be loyal to Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada is basically doing the same definition of Aryan as Julius Evola. In many respects, they have similar approaches to the subject actually. The first aspect of an Aryan is material and clearly racial. That’s the original definition. The Aryans were and are a material racial designation, as Srila Prabhupada clearly affirms in most of his quotes, but because of the age of Kali, even the Aryans are degraded (basically Shudras at heart), therefore being an Aryan requires a much higher standard in this age and can definitely sometimes be found outside of the racial material designation (because this age is chaotic). Just like a son of a Brahmana can be a foolish rascal, a non white like a Vietnamese can express and appear to be an Aryan in character much more than a material Aryan. Ironically, taking about Hitler, he also agreed on this concept. He publicly declared the Japanese to be “Honorary Aryans”. Not only that but he also had some Jews in his government with the same designation (his best friend and founder of the SS for example). But the basic material reality is there and cannot be glossed over as non existent for the sake of exceptions.
Prabhupada also said that all Brahmanas were Shudras but that doesn’t mean that the current Brahamanas (including the ones he was trying to create) are illusions. As you know, in India you still have birth Brahmanas running the temples and Prabhupada was proud of his material ancestry regarding their family relationship to Nityananda Prabhu. Ancestors do exist, they aren’t a figment of our imagination, this is why chanting actually helps our ancestors.
In other words, denying the material and racial aspect of human beings is not only dishonest but a clear denial of Prabhupada’s teaching. It is a form of mayavadism as I have constantly pointed out. This is not me taking, Srila Bhaktivinoda also makes this clear in Jaiva Dharma in his chapter on Race.
What I attempted to do above was harmonize what our dear Srila Prabhupada has stated. He wasn’t wrong, he was absolutely right and only WE can be wrong. When we find statements of his on any of these topics, WE are the ones that have to harmonize without ever contradicting him or even appearing to contradict him. No matter the consequences and no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel.
I also believe that being loyal to all of Prabhupada puts us in a more honest and firm ground for preaching. Most people that we encounter are robots and slaves of cultural Marxism anyhow. They will disagree with almost everything our beloved Prabhupada has said, never mind him calling Hitler a great demon but a gentleman. It is our job to reprogram them to the truth and reality of this existence, not feed them more delusional nonsense.
We have to be strong and stand by Prabhupada.
If this is not an exchange you brothers wish to have with me, then I pray the light and truth of Krishna continues to guide your mission. Any work towards establishing that eternal relationship is Godly work. I only wished to find other fellow warriors in this war against the asuras of this world who wish to drown us all in demoniac culture.
जय श्री राधा कृष्णा
Subject: Aryans are White Europeans
Dear Sriman Ujjvala das,
Please accept my humble dandavat pranams.
I just noticed you sent your email to me, in addition to Sriman Gokulananda Prabhu.
You mentioned you have received Hari Nama diksha, who is your guru?
Srila Prabhupada CLEARLY states that Aryans are White Europeans and that Shudra means Black.
Then there are, and were, no aryans in India, unless they moved there from Europe and had white skin?
I do not agree. I stand by my statement that a true Aryan is one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, without any regard to his birth, which is entirely irrelevant. The best Aryan is the type we are trying to create, one that purely chants the Holy Names of Krishna; “he is actually an Āryan.”:
“It is therefore concluded that one who chants the holy name of the Lord should be understood to have performed all kinds of austerities and great sacrifices mentioned in the Vedas. He has already taken his bath in all the holy places of pilgrimage. He has studied all the Vedas, and he is actually an Āryan.”
Furthermore, “Unless one is spiritually advanced, he cannot be called an Āryan, and this is the difference between Āryan and non-Āryan.” Are all Europeans “spiritually advanced”? If not, they cannot be Aryans in the context I have been using, the spiritual context (emphasis added):
CC Madhya 11.192
aho bata śva-paco ’to garīyān
yaj-jihvāgre vartate nāma tubhyam
tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā
brahmānūcur nāma gṛṇanti ye te
Word for word:
aho bata — how wonderful it is; śva-pacaḥ — dog-eaters; ataḥ — than the initiated brāhmaṇa; garīyān — more glorious; yat — of whom; jihvā-agre — on the tongue; vartate — remains; nāma — holy name; tubhyam — of You, my Lord; tepuḥ — have performed; tapaḥ — austerity; te — they; juhuvuḥ — have performed sacrifices; sasnuḥ — have bathed in all holy places; āryāḥ — really belonging to the Āryan race; brahma — all the Vedas; anūcuḥ — have studied; nāma — holy name; gṛṇanti — chant; ye — who; te — they.
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu then recited the following verse: “ ‘My dear Lord, one who always keeps Your holy name on his tongue becomes greater than an initiated brāhmaṇa. Although he may be born in a family of dog-eaters and therefore by material calculation may be the lowest among men, he is still glorious. This is the wonderful effect of chanting the holy name of the Lord. It is therefore concluded that one who chants the holy name of the Lord should be understood to have performed all kinds of austerities and great sacrifices mentioned in the Vedas. He has already taken his bath in all the holy places of pilgrimage. He has studied all the Vedas, and he is actually an Āryan.’ ”
The word Āryan means advanced. Unless one is spiritually advanced, he cannot be called an Āryan, and this is the difference between Āryan and non-Āryan. Non-Āryans are those who are not spiritually advanced. By following the Vedic culture, by performing great sacrifices and by becoming a strict follower of the Vedic instructions, one may become a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī or an Āryan. It is not possible to become a brāhmaṇa, sannyāsī or Āryan without being properly qualified. Bhāgavata-dharma never allows one to become a cheap brāhmaṇa, sannyāsī or Āryan. The qualities or qualifications described herein are quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.33.7) and were spoken by Devahūti, the mother of Kapiladeva, when she understood the influence of devotional service (bhakti-yoga). In this way Devahūti praised the devotee, pointing out his greatness in all respects.
Prabhu Ujjvala, in the responses you wrote, you are mixing apples and oranges, material designations and spiritual ones. You also mix the relative instructions of the spiritual master with the absolute ones. Your discrimination is flawed. It seems you do not know how to properly discriminate when reading the shastras and do not read the shastras as we have been instructed to do; under the guidance of a higher vaishnava.
Guru, shastra and sadhu have some interdependency with each other. They help each other. A proper guru is the living embodiment of each of these and is sufficient in himself for all purposes. But generally we need the help of all three agents of the Supreme Lord for our cultivation of spiritual knowledge.
I don’t care to involve myself with trying to harmonize man’s mundane dealings. I am interested in the upliftment of all jivas to the spiritual platform, not the management of material bodies (varnashrama), except so far as practically necessary. For example, a jiva in a child’s body should be cared for and nurtured by responsible adults. Jivas in adult bodies should be responsible for themselves. All jiva’s should be given the opportunity to become vaishanvas; that is our principal concern.
Your wrote: “Shudra means Black.”
Your points seem to be that one’s birth tells us all we need to know about him. In that case we are all black (shudra), according to you, and meant to be dealt with and controlled as slaves:
“Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: in the Age of Kali, everyone is a śūdra. Because the whole population of the world consists only of śūdras, there is a decline of spiritual knowledge, and people are unhappy.”
— SB 4.12.48, Purport
Since the scriptures of Srila Prabhupada tell us everyone in Kali-Yuga is born shudra, which you interpret to mean black, how can there be any aryans (whites) at all? If you accept Srila Prabhupada’s words, that in this age everyone is born shudra, then you cannot say there are any whites, be they European or any other.
Being all shudras, what is the point of discussing who is aryan and who is not? And, being shudra, you have no right to study the Vedas. Such study is meant only for the brahmanas who have taken mantra diksha, which you have not yet received.
If you are only able to read the shastras without the ability to properly adjust the contradictory statements found therein, you will arrive at foolish positions, such as the one’s you’ve written about. The result is, you remain attached to your materialistic ideas and attempt to spread them to others in the name of the spiritual siddhanta of Srila Prabhupada, Krishna, etc. By doing this you mislead all those influenced by your ideas.
Do you disagree with something I wrote here?
In his Purport Srila Prabhupada writes:
As the moon never refuses to distribute its pleasing rays even to the home of a caṇḍāla, a Vaiṣṇava never refuses to act for everyone’s welfare. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava is always obedient to the spiritual master (ārya). The word ārya refers to one who is advanced in knowledge. One who is deficient in knowledge cannot be called ārya. At the present, however, the word ārya is used to refer to those who are godless. This is the unfortunate situation of Kali-yuga.
The word guru refers to the spiritual master who initiates his disciple into advancement in the science of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as stated by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura (śrī-bhagavan-mantropadeśake gurāv ity arthaḥ). (SB 7.4.31-32, Purport)
Hitler made public and infamous his complete ignorance of the true meaning of the term aryan by supporting the breeding of certain types of humans (based on bodily characteristics), while forbidding or eliminating others. He, thereby, divorced the term from its original spiritual denotation.
Devotees who do the same are preaching a materialistic philosophy, not a spiritual one.
Or, is there something else I wrote that you believe is mistaken?
I hope I was able to answer some of your questions. However, if you think I misrepresented Srila Prabhupada’s teachings in some way, please tell me specifically how you believe I have done so.
I look forward to your response.
Swami B.K. Giri
From: Ujjvala das
Date: Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 3:42 PM
To: Gokulananda das, BK Giri
Subject: Re: Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math
That link [“Aryan Does Not Mean a White Man”] is fascinating because Srila Prabhupada CLEARLY states that Aryans are White Europeans and that Shudra means Black. This is not only clearly stated on SB purports but on his classes. See below on the quotes provided.
Why do devotees in western countries fear these subjects so much? Prabhupada answers this in many of his purports by pointing out that there is an escapist and life denying element of mayavadism that is VERY attractive to the modern western mindset.
Not only that but interestingly, Srila Prabhupada also is clear that Hitler was correct in saying that they (Europeans) were Aryans. Read quote below. Why would any devotees who claim to love Prabhupada ignore or even contradict him?
Also, how can anyone say that Prabhupada was speaking on a “spiritual” Varnashrama dharma? This is, in my humble estimation, preposterous considering that Srila Prabhupada was building farming communities here in the real world, not in the spiritual realm. Prabhupada wanted farming communities here and wanted a Krishna Conscious state with a real Varnashrama community and even an army (quotes are also easy to find on that). I ask you: Why is it that the modern person is so obsessed with spiritualizing everything to the point of denying what has to be done? Again; this attitude is clearly mayavadi. Am I wrong?
Here are the direct quotes:
So on the whole, the conclusion is that the Aryans spread in Europe also, and the Americans, they also spread from Europe. So the intelligent class of human being, they belong to the Aryans, Aryan family. Just like Hitler claimed that he belonged to the Aryan family. Of course, they belonged to the Aryan families. (Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 9.3 — Melbourne, April 21, 1976)
The Aryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tan. Indians are tan but they are not black. But Aryans are all white. And the non-Aryans, they are called black. Yes. (Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.6 — Bombay, November 6, 1970)
Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Aryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Aryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they will be fair complexion. Sudras, black. So if a brahmana becomes black, then he’s not accepted as brahmana. Kala bahu (?). And if a sudra becomes fair, then he’s to be know that he’s not pure sudra. (Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — August 2, 1976, New Mayapur, French farm)
Here, below, you have a few more related ones that is clear it is referring to a REALITY reflected materially and spiritually:
-“It may be concluded that white or a golden hue is the color of the higher caste, and black is the complexion of the sudras [lower class].
(SB 4.14.45, purport)
-“The dark-skinned races are not allowed to live in cities and towns because they are sinful by nature. As such, their bodies are very ugly, and their occupations are also sinful.”
-“They are always engaged in sinful activities like stealing…”
(SB 4.14.46, purport)
-“Sudra is to be controlled only. They are never to be given freedom. Just like in America. The blacks were slaves. They were under control. And since you have given them equal rights they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.”
(Room Conversation, “Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced,” Mayapura, 2/14/77)
-“…the higher classes of men are white (sukla), and the lower classes of men are black. This division of white and black is in terms of one’s white and black duties of life. Pious acts lead one to… acquire beautiful features. Impious acts lead one to… acquire ugly bodily features.”
(SB 3.5.9, purport)
Can Srila Prabhupada be ANY clearer? I find it disheartening that so many devotees choose to ignore Srila Prabhupada to the point of actually denying his clear statements for the sake of fitting in, political correctness, or basic fear of the implications of what is being stated.
Srila Prabhupada didn’t come to give us candy, but hard truth. If we westerners don’t drink his truth nectar, we will be absolutely destroyed and deservedly so. Loyalty means to follow and accept EVERYTHING out acharya says. Of course we can preach to tigers, whites, Asians, etc. But there is a clear reality that cannot be ignored. Similarly, there is a jiva within a woman, but she cannot rule her husband, be a brahmana, rule a country, etc. When Srila Prabhupada states (and Shastra) that a woman is less intelligent than a man and that she must be subject to her husband; was this also a “spiritual” gender distinction not a real one??
Prabhupada is not a simple guru, I believe is he is an shaktaaveshavatar, and in being so we have no right whatsoever to bypass his statements. If we say something contrary to what Srila Prabhupada has said, we are wrong and he is right.
I hope again that indeed you understand my point and take it positively. This is a very important issue for me because it strikes at the heart of the truth versus the subjectivism of Kali Yuga.
At the end of the day, I don’t care about anything except being loyal and true to Prabhupada. Even if I have to be the only one. No matter the consequence, no matter how uncomfortable to anybody or even myself.
At your service,
On Oct 22, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Gokulananda das responded to Ujjvala das:
While I agree with many of your points about PC and how the promotion of deplorable acts as “normal” have infiltrated ISKCON, I think we have to unravel some of the things you have represented to me.
First off, Srila Prabhupada was not advocating for material Varnasrama Dharma, he was trying to establish Daivi Varnamsrama – spiritual Varnasrama. Race, sex, caste as they are understood widely have no place in Daivi Varnasrama – there, the only price of the admission ticket is the consciousness that you have cultivated. Material Varnasrama cannot even be followed properly in this Kali Yuga anyway.
You said “We are not the body, but we are IN bodies right now”.
Therefore, we must leave the plane of bodily consciousness. While circumstances of birth might be indicative of a person’s future achievements in a general mundane way, it cannot be a predictor in the absolute plane. If it were, most white people would be physicists or advanced spiritualists!
Rather, we are taught the jiva atma is passing through body after body on a cloud of mental entropy. The same jiva may have animal bodies, human bodies or even exist trapped in the space between atoms. Yet, the essence of that individual spark remains.
While we in Chaitanya Saraswat Math abhor the philosophies of the atheists, communists, homosexualists and ALL OTHER mundane thinkers, we are 100% ready to welcome anyone who is willing to change to the standard set by our Spiritual Masters in the line of Sri Rupa Goswami. The PC crowd can leave their misconceptions and join us – but we have no interest in having anything to do with their misconceptions and hellish lifestyles.
Srila Giri Maharaja recently posted an article about Hitler’s misguided understanding of who the Aryans actually were. It can be seen here:
You can contact Srila Giri Maharaja directly at firstname.lastname@example.org or feel free to write me anytime!
From: Ujjvala das
Date: Monday, October 19, 2015 at 10:01 AM
To: Gokulananda das
Subject: Re: Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math
Dandavats Pranams Gokulananda Prabhu!
May I ask you a question that you could relay to your Guru Maharaj (or that you may already have an answer for)?
I have brought this up to other devotees before with a mixed response and would love to hear from your Matha.
The following subject is very controversial to most people due to their modernist conditioning, but I will bring it up anyhow because I believe it to be an important subject that is related purely on how loyal we are to our predecessors and acharyas, and even addresses how we conceptualize reality itself:
It is a fact that our Vedic tradition is CLEAR that there are racial differences among humans. These differences are indeed reflected in QUALITY. As you know, there are 400k species of humans per Shastra (consider the fact that calling them different species makes it even more controversial to most tender footed Americans since it is an even stronger demarcation between people than race!). Srila Prabhupada was also very clear on this subject, including very firm statements regarding how these differences play out in the real world, including his famous comments about how the Aryans of Europe actually did something with the land of America when the shudras (as he called the native inhabitants) did nothing with it because they had no brain (easy quote to find if you are not familiar with it). Srila Prabhupada also openly talked about the benefits of slavery when it relates to American Black shudras (which he identified racially in plenty of recorded conversations). Srila Prabhupada was also very clear in his books about the true origin of most racial groups, including his discussion in the Shrimad Bhagavatam about the material origin of Blacks and how they were banished (this is why there aren’t any African bodies in Goloka Vrindavan, due to the history taught in the Bhagavatam).
To be clear, Srila Prabhupada was also clear that his preaching mission is for all creatures and species, so as to be able to convert Africans, Europeans, dogs, cats, etc. He was also implicit in the fact that most Varnashrama communities would function better if they congregated devotees of the same race/species instead of creating strange multicultural amalgamations (he has been proven to be right when you look at the liberal ISCKON farming community experiments around the world with the exception of the Eastern European ones which are actually fairly homogenous).
We are not the body, but we are IN bodies right now due to our karma, and these bodies reflect said past karma very dramatically. We can’t and must not deny our current reality reflected in this body or we are actually rejecting Krishna’s arrangement. Srila Prabhupada once used an analogy when he spoke to a devotee who was going into the “very downgraded people” of Harlem (as he said it). Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would also go into the jungle and dance with tigers, but he doesn’t suggest all devotees to do the same or they will get eaten. In other words, we can’t deny material reality either or we in turn become foolish rascals.
Most modern so-called Vaishnavas that preach egalitarianism, “diversity”, equality, etc. (they even promote homosexuality!!) are in fact hard core mayavadis, who deny the reality of the material energy of Krishna and consider it all an illusion. In other words, equality is a doctrine of radical monism which is a form of mayavadism and universal Unitarianism. This is not our sidhanta at all. Krishna is everything and everywhere, but there is no “false” reality, and this manifestation is characterized by stratified gradations of quality. Even in the spiritual worlds there isn’t impersonal equality but instead it is actually characterized by specialization (there isn’t stratification anymore like in the material sense, but we do have differences of specialty and activity). I would say most of the Neo Sahajiyas that walk around within our movement are in truth Buddhist types with a liberal flavor to their preaching.
Maya is not that material reality does not exist but actually believing that we exist for our own sake, or worse that we control reality independently. The belief that we can alter natural reality (Krishna) or that somehow differentiation (Krishna) is unfair and evil, is a purely mayavad conception of the world. Only when we understand that everything is Krishna and belongs to Krishna do we then see through maya. Accepting Shastra is the strong way of accepting objective reality above subjective fantasy. Subjectivism is exactly the reason we are stuck in material reality in the first place.
Can you please let me know what the teaching of your Gurudeva is on these subjects, of if he is even interested in these subjects?
I hope that you can understand the true intention of these inquiries and that you accept my humble obeisances.
PS – I have a whole collections of authentic and very clear Srila Prabhupada quotes on all of these particular subjects if you would like me to provide them…just in case you are not familiar with them. The quotes can’t be skipped over or ignored because they are at the core value of how radically traditionalist he was in his teachings of the truth, without any fear.